Need a clarification about FIDE Rule Article 11 - 11.3.2.1

Hi @chanakam2000

FIDE Rating Regulations are listed here: www.fide.com/component/handbook/?id=197&view=article --- See Below

5. Unplayed Games - 5.1

Whether these occur because of forfeiture or any other reason, they are not counted. Any game where both players have made at least one move will be rated.

However, there were more than 1 move played in the game so the game is rated.

Best,
~IA Acerook

I disagree, @Acerook, the game should not be rated. The FIDE Arbiters' Manual 2018 states:

"It is different if the game has not yet started. Suppose the following situation occurs:
There is no zero‐tolerance. Player A is in the playing hall at the start of the round.
His opponent, Player B is absent. Immediately after player A made his first move his mobile rings. The arbiter declares the game lost for Player A. Some minutes later, but still on time, Player B arrives. The score is “‐/+”, it is not a “played” game and it cannot be rated."

By analogy, the game should not be rated in our case either. I cannot see why it should make a difference if the arbiter made the ruling later in the game for the offence.

@chanakam2000: It seems quite harsh to forfeit you during the game for something that happened before any moves were made. Coming to the playing venue with a phone turned on happens all the time here and I have never heard anyone complain... But (a minority of) chessplayers are very eager to have their "rights" enforced and it is a difficult decision for the arbiter to make (e.g. "How can we be sure you did not use your phone for analysis for seven minutes after your opponent played the surprising 1.f4!?").

I love this thread, it is a nice diversion from the endless threads "My opponent only had a single piece and I lost on time, why is it not a draw????"

Best,
~FA FI FM Sandstad

Respectfully @Sandstad (FA, FI, FM),

That's the main difference. In the situation described in the Arbiter's manual, the offender's mobile rings compared to this situation where the player turned the device off in the playing hall. It is not so analogously as in the situation described the Arbiter's manual 1) the offender's phone is on 2) the device made noise in the playing hall, thus distracting not only the potential opponent but also the entire playing conditions for the other players. and 3) this noise disturbance definitely alerted an arbiter to take action accordingly.

Please note that I did not make a ruling on the OP's situation. I simply answered his questions. (4 questions about playing venue, "during the game", draw offer procedure, and ratable game definition).

If I was the arbiter, I would have given a severe warning (Article 12.9.1) and perhaps 2 minutes on the opponent's time (Article 12.9.2) because the OP's cellphones was not on the persons as in Article 11.3.2.2. And it would be clear to me that the OP's cellphone in the bag was not used for any cheating purposes (upon verification of apps if needed).

Best,
~IA Acerook

1. The place venue is the area in which the chessboards are positioned. If the referees' station is located inside the playing area (place venue), it is customary to set up near their location an area where electronic devices are kept. You are to be alert because the player has to stay inside the place venue during the game, so if you have to go in the bathroom and it's out of the area which the chessboard are positioned, the bathroom became place venue.
2. The referees say to push the button of the clock and the game start. So if your opponent has started the game in your situation you were in a condition of during the game. However there obscure points in the norm because if the first move isn't playied you haven't any benefit bye an electric device on.
3. In some announcement you can read the regulation about the draw rules. There are tournaments where the rules of Sofia are active. There are tournament where two playiers are in accord to draw the game before to sit on the board.
Article 9.1.1. is clear. Where the announcement does not provide to inform you about a specific condition about the draw you are free to use the common sense and the refree has to use it in every situation.
4. The draw has to be claimed after the third repetition. If the playier move his piece the game go ahed. So when you turn off your electronic device your opponent can claim the victory but after 20 moves he lost the right. I think that in according with the law you have a good right to forward an official compliant.

@Acerook Yes, I would rule exactly as you suggest (depending slightly on circumstances of course).

For ratings, I still believe it should not be rated. Otherwise, the opponent would have an incentive to play two moves and only then claim a win by mobile phone. That seems very strange to me.. But it would not be the first time FIDE does something I find strange ;)

@Sandstad

Thank you very much for reply.

(e.g. "How can we be sure you did not use your phone for analysis for seven minutes after your opponent played the surprising 1.f4!?").

Yes true. This point also came in the discussion. Arbiters said that There is other guideline that if black player has not arrived on time & if white player was there he/she should press his side of the clock & let blacks time run. But no move made on the board or write on record sheet so that opponent do not have any way (like observing through windows or some other manner) to know what is whites first move until he arrives and sit to play. In some cases it need to write the move and seal or some thing. But white should not have to make the move on board until opponent arrives .

Above is what arbiters here said. But again i did not find corresponding rule. It might be in some appendices or somewhere else.
.
By the way In my particular case I was white. :)

@chanakam2000 Being white is slightly different ;)

I have previously tried to be careful to turn my phone off before the round starts when I am late when the game is broadcasted live, just so there can be no suspicion...

Until some other IA shows up, @Acerook is the main authority here :)

Good luck in your future events!